I expect they were saying the same thing in the 1880s. It's wishful thinking.
Half banana
JoinedPosts by Half banana
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41
"This system will probably be over in about 5 years"
by john.prestor ini don't think i shared this story yet, it's strange and although i did a little detective work trying to figure out who said what and when i never found out much, big surprise, jehovah's witnesses love their secrets as we all know... but i thought other posters might find this interesting both in and of itself, because of what an elder told me one sunday back in 2011, and because of what it could imply as to high-ranking jehovah's witnesses prophesying the date of armageddon.
specific dates went out the window in 1975, although governing body helper ken flodin hinted at 2040 in a talk uploaded to jw.org a couple years back, and the governing body hinted at 2034 in a watchtower back in the 90s.
but it might be, just might, that more specific date-setting still goes on behind closed doors in certain circuits.... so after i went to "meetings" and talked to witnesses for a couple years at a rural congregation in the eastern united states an elder pulled me aside one service into the vestibule at the hall, in other words, into a private area where no one would overhear us.
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"This system will probably be over in about 5 years"
by john.prestor ini don't think i shared this story yet, it's strange and although i did a little detective work trying to figure out who said what and when i never found out much, big surprise, jehovah's witnesses love their secrets as we all know... but i thought other posters might find this interesting both in and of itself, because of what an elder told me one sunday back in 2011, and because of what it could imply as to high-ranking jehovah's witnesses prophesying the date of armageddon.
specific dates went out the window in 1975, although governing body helper ken flodin hinted at 2040 in a talk uploaded to jw.org a couple years back, and the governing body hinted at 2034 in a watchtower back in the 90s.
but it might be, just might, that more specific date-setting still goes on behind closed doors in certain circuits.... so after i went to "meetings" and talked to witnesses for a couple years at a rural congregation in the eastern united states an elder pulled me aside one service into the vestibule at the hall, in other words, into a private area where no one would overhear us.
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Half banana
The way JW governance works is by holding to the doctrine of "the perpetual imminence of Armageddon". This scam is a key to the longevity of the cult. It will break down nevertheless as people become more informed and see how untruthful the JW organisation is.
The success of the GB is measured by the commitment of the flock to a very early fulfilment of Bible kingdom prophecy. Those who think otherwise are malingering low life, almost apostate. Oh no! how terrible!
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Rape by Elder led to a life of sexual abuse
by Asian sister ini was raped by two brothers when i was 12 in vancouver.
one was an elder who i trusted beyond belief and the other was his 18 year old son, who i had a huge crush on.
it changed my life forever, i became a slut, sleeping with every brother i could of which there was an endless supply.
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Half banana
Asian sister, so sorry to hear how you were raped as a child and with such consequences. Life must be difficult for you.
The first thought which comes to my mind is how do you square your life style with still being a JW? Not that I would recommend you to remain one but do you take it seriously? If you do then this only compounds the difficulty of being yourself but publicly being a believer.
Without wishing to stress you further, I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter but only if you feel comfortable in explaining.
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Mark 13: 1-8 ...Not a composite sign/ two-fold prophecy scripture
by RULES & REGULATIONS inthis brother starts off with reading the following scriptures from the book of mark 13:1-8.
3 while he was sitting on the mount of olives across from the temple, peter, james, john, and andrew asked him privately, 4 “tell us, when will these things happen?
and what will be the sign when all these things are about to be accomplished?”.
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Half banana
There are two primary false assumptions made by the Watchtower:
One is that the Bible contains the thoughts and demands of a supreme god.
The second is that only the Watchtower/JW org leadership have the exclusive spin rights on how to interpret it.
Therefore the GB think that all they need for any situation is to find a scripture relevant in content to the problem at hand and that will suffice-- so forget the original context or meaning. Trotting out scriptures regardless of meaning keeps up their reputation as a Bible quoting religion. The JW governing body are world leaders in "post truth" thinking!
This matter is so clear when reading the gospels about the prevailing anxieties by Jews and the end of their system. As crazyguy mentions these were written close to the time of the sack of Jerusalem in 70 AD under Vespasian. The so called Third temple only recently built was destroyed and broke the power of the Jewish leaders and closed the Sanhedrin.
The Greek scriptures were written for a new Christ cult which was growing at the time but were relatively few in number and mainly Jews. As yet they were not centrally organised apart from holding meetings in the manner of prevailing Greek and Roman cults, from which they derived their heirarchical orders; bishops, prebyters and deacons --still in use by JWs in modern translation.
The words of the gospels are categorically not those of Jesus of Nazareth.
Nazareth did not exist when Jesus was supposed to have been born! No one ever took down verbatim what Jesus said, mainly because nobody known to history actually knew him or reported his words or activities first hand.The gospels are the fabrications of the leaders of a new christ in a historical background of many christ cults which preached destruction of the world and salvation by belief in a resurrected christ figure--which was an evolving twist on an ancient story.
My favourite which says it all is Mark 9;1.
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Warwick and Similar Properties
by Lost in the fog ina comment from a friend's page.
"why does a heavenly organisation need earthly headquarters buildings?
surely jesus said that god is a spirit and should be worshipped in spirit and truth?
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Half banana
Dreary, the point is that if a heavenly organisation existed and functioned by communicating with people on Earth then there would be no need for an Earthly one as well.
There is no evidence whatsoever for any heavenly organisation, it is purely a construct of the human imagination of religious leaders.
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Comparison of Jan 14 and 15 days texts
by helpmeout ini couldn’t help but notice the juxtaposition of the day text for jan 14 and 15. the first is about following the disfellowshipping decree, the second is about showing compassion.
i ask you, “if an active jw were to miss following both of these texts, which one would they most likely be counseled on?”.
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Half banana
That's right Steve, compassion my foot. In JW land it's obey! or we'll apply psychological torture to you.
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When Israel was living under a Theocracy ,was it a Paradise ?
by smiddy3 inthe bible books that speak of a time when the israelite`s were enjoying jehovah`s blessings , isnt it true they were still dying from old age ,sickness , and death ?
didn`t they have a leper colony in their midst ?....yes.
didn`t they still have the poor among them ?
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Half banana
Smiddy, you write as if these Jewish things really existed! The founders of Judaism, Abraham and Moses are fictional characters-- they never lived, they could never make contracts with God or anyone-- it's all storybook narrative. Theocracies are fiction, the Jews never had one. God never shows himself to anyone so theocracy is the work of men claiming to do God's rule. There never was a Jewish paradise nor Adam and Eve. Some claim that the Mosaic law was never actually implemented as written.
But you're dead right there is no basis for thinking that the Jewish god YHVH or his consort Ashera or his father El (all of which Israel borrowed from the Phoenicians) have any interest in making an Earthly paradise. It's an empty promise. Better to get on with real things.......
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Reflecting On Death
by Charles Gillette inreflecting on death.
i can't remember, maybe steve jobs before he died.i thought i would share it with you and see what you think about it, and i'm quoting i think from his book.. "i'm about fifty-fifty on believing in god.
for most of my life, i've felt that there must be more to our own existence than meets the eye.. i might be overestimating the odds 50/50 out of a desire to believe in an afterlife.
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Half banana
So sorry for your loss Old Navy.
Although I would disagree with the likelihood of life after death, as free agents we all have choice in what we want to believe (except for JWs!) However "belief" has no connection necessarily with what is true.
Doesn't this thread bring home that the greatest tragedy everyone experiences is death. It is hardly surprising that humanity has developed social convention and indeed institutions such as organised faith, aka religion, which attempt to lessen this unavoidable hardship?
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Reflecting On Death
by Charles Gillette inreflecting on death.
i can't remember, maybe steve jobs before he died.i thought i would share it with you and see what you think about it, and i'm quoting i think from his book.. "i'm about fifty-fifty on believing in god.
for most of my life, i've felt that there must be more to our own existence than meets the eye.. i might be overestimating the odds 50/50 out of a desire to believe in an afterlife.
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Half banana
CG you voice a popular opinion on death. We value ourselves enough to think that surely there is more to it than this? We were handed this down from those who lived before us but death is the norm and rationally there is no alternative.
I remember at the age of four and visiting friends with my parents where a car accident in the street had recently killed a five year old, a neighbour of our host. The sadness generated in this discussion taught me the finality of death. A dozen years later I had adopted the JW viewpoint and all the baggage which goes with it.Twenty seven years afterwards I escaped and thought OK we die but it was unreasonable to ever have thought otherwise.
It has been and continues to be the most exiting thing ever possible to live and control our life for the time we have it, we can only make the best of the experience and not waste it on religion. But I seem to be an extremist here!
One response to the shortness of life is art. We have enjoyed or rather endured the religious take on mortality, why not and reflect on what poets and writers have said about the value of our lives:
This Quiet Dust was Gentlemen and Ladies
This quiet dust was gentlemen and ladies
And lads and girls;
Was laughter and ability and sighing,
And frocks and curls;
This passive place a summer's nimble mansion,
Where bloom and bees
Fulfilled their oriental circuit,
Then ceased like these.Emily Dickinson
Who pondered deeply on matters existential. Thanks for reminding me Saethydd
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The paranormal.
by Lost in the fog ini know that a lot of the people on here have turned their backs on the idea of a deity deciding that god does not exist.
but what about the unseen spirit world generally such as poltergeists, jinns, voodoo, etc.
if you have become agnostic, atheist, or just don't care since leaving, do you think that there are spirits out there or have you decided that is also hokum?
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Half banana
Remember all human experience, every event, every situation, everything seen heard smelled or felt is mediated through our infinitely complex electro-physiological human brain
---and we have a great capacity for imagination and self delusion.